E19 – Our Editing Process (video, show notes, transcript)

Show Notes

In this episode, Miss Catherine M.H. and V.E. Griffith discuss their editing process, both individually and in the Vella they’re co-writing.

Support us on Patreon at https://patreon.com/revisionwizards

The Revision Wizards are at https://www.revisionwizards.com
V.E. Griffith’s website: https://www.vegriffith.com
Miss Catherine M.H.’s website: https://www.scribes-pen.com

Transcript at: https://revisionwizards.com/?p=2295

Transcript

Miss Catherine MH 00:00:00
Welcome to the Revision Wizards podcast. I’m Miss. Catherine M. H, and with me is my co-host, the editing wizard VE Griffith. Today is Episode 19, and we’re talking about the editing process. So this will be kind of what we do for our own editing and how we do it on our own versus how we’re doing it as co-writers.

VE Griffith 00:00:22
We’ve got one shout-out this week. Mary Van Everbrook has, again, very kindly upped her pledge, and we remain grateful for her support and her engagement with us. Our patrons help us pay for transcripts of our shows that are available on our website and for better audio recording quality. So listening is a little easier on your ears if you’d be willing to support the show financially. For as little as a bucket episode, we have a bunch of neat benefits you can take advantage of, including a special podcast feed with extra content and personal updates inside access as we collaborate on Avela, the opportunity to ask questions for Ask the Editor episodes, professional editing, and more. You can find out everything you need to know at Patreon. Comrevisionwizards. And with that, here we go with editing.

Miss Catherine MH 00:01:10
All right, so editing that thing that nobody actually likes to do, but we sort of secretly do.

VE Griffith 00:01:19
I don’t know. I’ve heard stories of people who really like to edit. They hate first drafts and they like editing. I’m kind of one of those people. I really hate first drafts. Revision is my jam.

Miss Catherine MH 00:01:19
See, and that’s where we’re opposite. I’d rather just keep writing. The editing process, ironically, since I’m an editor, is annoying. But I think that’s only because it’s my own stuff, and I’d rather it was just perfect right from the get-go. But it’s never like that.

VE Griffith 00:01:46
No, my stuff is never perfect either. And that’s one of the reasons why I’m so slow, is I’m very careful because I want to try and make the editing process later go faster, but it really slows down my drafting process, and it’s really frustrating, and that’s why I hate doing first drafts.

Miss Catherine MH 00:02:09
I can understand that. I guess I’ll go first.

VE Griffith 00:02:16
Sure.

Miss Catherine MH 00:02:17
Okay. So my editing process deals with a lot of drafts. I start off with writing my first draft. I go from start to finish. I am not allowed, or I do not allow myself to go back and edit at all. I think in Scandals Pen, there was only once that I ever did I wrote a chapter and immediately knew after finishing that chapter that that was the wrong way to go. And if I had continued with it, I would have written myself into a really dark corner. So that was the only time I went back and rewrote anything in my first draft. And from there so that is draft one. I go to my draft two. So I used to print this out until I got my Surface, and I have my Surface pen. So now I can actually do this all digital and save some poor trees because I write 200 plus thousand words. That’s a lot of pages to print. So for me, I then go through and I read my manuscript. I like to give myself maybe two weeks to almost like a month and a half before I will go back and read it because it is still way too fresh . For Scandal’s Pen, I actually waited an entire year before I went back to even do any edits. So with that, I will go in and I have a highlighting system. So this is stuff that I picked up from other writers. The idea behind it was really cool, especially because I’m a visual person. And once I started going with this, I understood exactly what my color code system was. So I didn’t need to write notes anymore. So I used to highlight something and then in a separate notebook, write down what each of those highlights meant. Now I can just highlight it and I know exactly what it means.

Miss Catherine MH 00:02:17
So this is my color code system. Red. Something is really wrong. So that is my huge sign that, nope, something is super wrong. Fix it. And that’s usually my immediate fixes.

Miss Catherine MH 00:02:17
Green, because I’ll read stuff out loud, means it sounds awkward or is really confusing. Like, if I just confused myself, clearly I’m confusing other people. So that gets highlighted green.

Miss Catherine MH 00:02:17
Blue is for rewording or deleting something. So if I see something that is really strangely worded, I could be like, oh, just reword this, and I know it. I highlighted it in blue.

Miss Catherine MH 00:02:17
Pink is for consistency. If I have been reading something and I notice that something looks different from how it’s been written before, I will highlight it. So that’s something that then I will go back and check. I am sure VE has noticed this as he is editing my work, but I am not consistent on whether or not the word king or prince is capitalized. I have noticed that it really drives me up a wall. I’m sure it has driven him up a wall.

VE Griffith 00:05:30
Oh, don’t worry, I fixed them. I’m not going to tell you how I fixed them, but I did.

Miss Catherine MH 00:05:37
Yes. So yellow, when I highlight something in yellow, means I really liked it, or I made myself laugh, which is always fun when you’re reading something that you wrote and you laugh and you’re like, who wrote that? And then you’re like, I did. So yellow is those really pick-me-up moments where sometimes that page is filled with greens and blues and reds, and all of a sudden one sentence is like Yo, this was gold. So it gets highlighted in yellow, and it makes you feel really good that you’re still not writing shit.

Miss Catherine MH 00:05:37
Orange means it needs more detail. So especially in my first drafts, I’m either extremely heavy in dialogue or extremely heavy in detail. So I give you all of the back stuff of what’s going on with very little dialogue, or I give you way too much dialogue and they’re just heads floating in a room. So those orange, for me, I’ll know the difference, too. So if I’m in dialogue and I’m adding orange, it means I need to know what they’re doing. And if I am in extreme, like, detail of stuff, I need to start adding dialogue. So I will highlight sections where I’m like, this could just be dialogue right here, instead of describing.

Miss Catherine MH 00:05:37
Gray is very rare for me to use, especially in my steampunk genres. In my space opera, I use it a lot more. But this is where I’m suddenly having a lot of names, where there’s language on the page. So I will start highlighting how many names are on this page. If I am introducing way too many characters at one moment, I will see that by looking at the page and realizing there’s 17 grays. And that means that each time I highlighted it, it was a brand new name or a brand new word. So that shows me that there’s way too much on this page and I need to lessen it. So that is how I go about with my first draft to my second draft.

Miss Catherine MH 00:05:37
My second draft, I will focus on certain colors and start fixing them, and each pass I go through for more of those colors, by the time I get to my fourth pass, which is what I’m on right now, that is my passive voice removal. And then I hand it off for my fifth draft to my line editor. So my line editor currently has it, and when I get it back, that will be my fifth draft. At that point, I will be sending it out to my beta readers. I will ask my alpha reader to once again read it since he read the original draft. Love him to death for having read the first draft that you normally don’t show anybody. Yeah, he read that one. And from there, if I need to make changes, I would have a 6th draft. But that is my editing process for myself, especially because I’m dyslexic, I’ve really got to make sure that I’m catching these things and fixing them as much as I can before sending them to my editor so my editor doesn’t die as much. Sorry, VE. So, yeah, that is my process. What is your process when you are editing your own work, not somebody else’s?

VE Griffith 00:08:49
Well, I work in Scrivener, which I know that you hate. As I’m writing my first draft, if I forget something, if I decide I’m going to change a word, I look at word choice or something like that. I use its inline comment functionality, which in Windows is Control Shift A. And on Mac is Command Shift A. And what that does is it formats text in red outline so that it’s very, very obvious. And so I can hit Command Shift A, leave a note to myself and turn it back off. The advantage to doing that is that when I go to compile, those comments automatically come out of the Microsoft Word version of the document. I don’t have to go in and remove them all. I can just leave them. So that’s my first draft.

VE Griffith 00:08:49
In my second draft, I will make a snapshot so that I have a first copy and it doesn’t get lost because I’m a pack rat and I want to keep all of the changes that I make. Then I’ll go through in passes and look at things like dialogue. Where can I tighten the dialog? Where do I need to add dialogue? I might do a pass for sex scenes if I need to add a sex scene because I’m really no good at writing those. If I need more action, I’ll do a pass about action. I’ll do a pass about passive voice, I’ll do a pass about Adverbs and Ly and stuff like that.

VE Griffith 00:08:49
At that point, I’m basically ready to hand it off to an editor. Either a developmental editor or usually a developmental editor is going to be my first choice. And then the developmental editor will take a look at it, help me find plot holes, help me find story problems, then I’ll take it back, do another set of snapshots, fix those, and then we’re we’re off to a line editor. If I feel like I need that, my stuff usually is pretty clean because I am a line editor, but I definitely need a developmental editor. I absolutely need one of those. So just because I’m really good with the mechanical stuff myself doesn’t mean I’m good with everything. So I absolutely need an editor just like everybody else does. But I’m a very slow first drafter and that’s always my hang up. I use a lot of the Command Shift A, I have a lot of red. The one thing that I’m really good about is in Scrivener. Once I write a section and I’m done with it, I’m done with it. I don’t go back, I don’t fiddle with it, I don’t allow myself to go back and self edit until I’m ready for my passes. So that’s my one big strength is I don’t rewrite chapter one endlessly. I just write very slowly so that’s generally speaking, my process when I edit myself.

Miss Catherine MH 00:12:01
I guess I should also mention, since you did too, each one of my drafts is its own separate document. So I don’t keep all of my drafts in one section like we’re trying to do for the Google One. I have separate documents for each of my drafts and I keep those in multiple spaces. So I have them in Google Docs, I have them in Word and I have them in Microsoft OneNote for me. So Microsoft OneNote is my go-to. If I can’t find my documents in anywhere else, I know I’ve saved them onto Microsoft OneNote. Because I don’t know what it was about me and one note, but one note seems to be the spot that I consistently remember to actually back up something. So for me, I have to have them all in completely separate documents. It’s interesting.

VE Griffith 00:13:01
Yeah. I use Scrivener’s automatic backup feature. So every time I close Scrivener, it makes a Zip file copy of my entire document and it dumps it in a special directory that I keep in a program. It’s not Dropbox, but it’s like Dropbox and I keep the last 25 of them. And since I have multiple computers, each computer has its own directory. So I have as many as 75 backups in Zip files at various stages and they’re all dated and timed automatically. Absolutely, if you use Scrivener, turn on the backup feature because if your Scrivener document gets hosed, you can very easily lose everything. But if you have those Zip files, you can go back. Most Scrivener documents are not really very big, so if you go ahead and save the maximum 25 of them, you’re not taking up a lot of space, but you’re giving yourself some room if you do something like, oh, I’ve got a problem, let me close it zips, let me open it back up. No, that didn’t fix it. You close it zips again so that you’re not accidentally erasing a good copy. So that’s why I used it. I go ahead and max it at 25 copies. So space is, for me, computer hard drive space is cheap and there’s no reason to be to be Chinty with something that is so critical to me, like my writing.

Miss Catherine MH 00:13:01
Makes sense.

VE Griffith 00:13:01
Yeah. So what about when you’re editing somebody else’s work? How do you take their document from them? What do you do with it?

Miss Catherine MH 00:14:42
So, for me, I am much more of the developmental and diagnostic editor. So I go through and I have what’s known as the chapter index that I use when I edit other people’s work. This is something that I’ve learned to start doing for my own work as well. Usually this will happen somewhere. It’s pretty much a reverse outline because I pants I go through, I guess, on my first draft. I don’t even know I haven’t even done it for Scandals Pen I do it for my space operas now. But I go through and list all of the characters that are in that chapter, what point of view we’re following, whose point of views, views we’re following, if there’s any slang, technology, stuff like that. So it’s all of the basics per chapter along with a one-sentence summary so I can go through someone’s entire novel and look at each sentence and know exactly what is happening throughout the entire story for them.

Miss Catherine MH 00:14:42
I will actually take the documents and old school it, I will put it into a Word document, double space them, move one of the sides in a little bit and I have my surface pen and I go through and handwrite all of my editing notes for them. So it’s faster for me than trying to type them out. And I write in cursive, so I always have to be like, I’m sorry, if you can’t read it, please let me know. And I will go through, give them the code of highlighting and then write the notes off to the side about those highlights. So if I’m highlighting something in orange, I will be writing a note over to the side, hey, this would be a great space to have some of that world-building you were missing come into here. Or if I’ve gone three chapters in, I can write a note next to a character mentioning, hey, you’ve never described your character yet, this is something that needs to happen, at least by this point. So I will go through, use my highlighting system to help people and to write out my notes so I know exactly what I’m talking about. And on my indexes, I can also leave extra notes to be like, hey, this chapter really needs this. So they’ll get both the document and an index on what I think should happen for those, sometimes I will put the index at the very end of each chapter, so I will make their document much longer by adding it in. Sometimes I will have the document up on the side and I’ll write in that document as I’m writing on their editing piece. So it really just depends on what that person is more comfortable with. If they want it inside of their document, then I’m sending it to them inside their document. If they want it on a separate, then I’m sending it that way.

Miss Catherine MH 00:14:42
So that’s really how I will go about editing. And then I will explain to the people when I’m talking with them or going over certain sections that I’m like, hey, this section right here was the biggest issue for me. Or this plot hole right here really needs to be fixed. So that’s really the stuff that I’m looking for. I have no idea if the highlighting system helps anybody else. It helps me. One of the persons who I was editing their work for had said that they just noticed that things were highlighted and they didn’t even pay attention to the color. So to each their own. I’m a very visual person. If I see colors, then those colors are going to start mentioning and like, meaning something. I do leave a code on a few of the chapters where I’m like, hey, this is the color code system. This is the color code system. And by chapter five, I’m like, if you still don’t know the color code system, then you’re just looking for the highlights. So that is the editing that I do for people.

VE Griffith 00:18:43
When I do editing, usually I’m doing line editing. If I’m doing a developmental edit or a three story method, story analysis. What I will do is I’ll go ahead and do the reverse outline as well. Every chapter is going to have a summary. Every chapter is going to have a pick out of what I think the conflict, choice and consequence are. If you’ve got multiple scenes in a chapter, you’re going to get those broken out as well. I’ll also do notes about how many characters we’ve got. I’ll try I’m not going to try super hard, but I’ll try and catch things that are errors, like the character has red hair in chapter one and has blue hair in chapter seven when that’s not what’s appropriate. And I’ll try and catch errors like that. I’ll do an index. I might do the beginnings of what’s called a style guide, where I will look at how you have typed your manuscript, the mechanical things, how things are capitalized, what things should be capitalized when you’re using italics, when you’re not using italics, those kinds of things. And I’ll try and make sure that they are consistent in your manuscript so that you’re doing them the same way every time. If that means that I need to go through your manuscript with a search and replace and look for phrases like the king, I’ll do that and I’ll fix them and make them consistent. And that way at least they’re consistent. Even if you decide later they’re wrong, you can go search and replace them and change them again, but at least they’re all the same. That’s what I really care about is, I care less if you’re making a typographical mistake, as opposed to I care more that you’re making the same mistake the same way every time, because then it’s less jarring to the reader.

VE Griffith 00:18:43
When I’m line editing, I’ll triple-space in Microsoft Word. I will turn on track changes and I will absolutely go to town. And most pages that are not dialogue are going to have a lot of edits on it. I will do things like tighten wording. I will do things like remove stray spaces that pop up, not just for people who end a sentence with a period space, space, like you do, but also stray spaces in the middle of sentences that might have crept in during the editing process. And I’ll fix all of those kinds of things. I’ll fix extra periods. I’ll fix commas. I’ll try and get rid of semicolons if I can because most people abuse semicolons and I really dislike them. So I’ll try and remove those, that kind of thing. That kind of very granular, detailed work. It’s very slow.

VE Griffith 00:18:43
And that’s why when you hire a line editor, it’s usually pretty expensive because that kind of work is very detailed. You’re going sentence by sentence, line by line. And then as I go through, I’ll also leave comments using the comment feature. I really liked this. I really didn’t like this. I changed this because I won’t just make a change I’ll explain why I’m making a change so that the author can learn for next time. So that it’s easier on me, easier on them, and they understand why I chose what I chose. If I use a style guide like the Chicago Manual of Style, I will refer to I’ll tell them what section of the Chicago Manual of Style I was looking at when I decided to make a change. So that way everything is consistent and they know that I didn’t just pull stuff out of my ass and make changes.

Miss Catherine MH 00:22:50
Just so you know, I’m probably never going to question you’re “Like, this is where I found it in this book.” And I’ll be like, yeah, sure, whatever.

VE Griffith 00:22:56
That’s fine. You don’t have to I don’t care if they look, but as a matter of personal injury or I want to make sure that I have my ducks in a row and that I know what I’m doing. So this is professional to me, and I want to be professional, and I want to dot all my I’s and cross all my T’s and get it all straight. So usually, depending on the manuscript, your manuscripts that I have been, when I’ve been going through scandals, pan, I keep track of how long it takes me to do each chapter. It takes me an hour to an hour and a half to get through most of your chapters. If it’s a dialogue-heavy chapter, it will take less time because dialogue usually tends to be pretty clean, at least in your case. And you’re consistent about character voice, and so I don’t have to or at least character modulation. So when Theodore is speaking his street slang, he’s doing it consistently. He’s doing it intelligently and in a place that makes sense. He’s not talking to the king in his street slang.

Miss Catherine MH 00:24:03
Right. I wouldn’t even put it past him to do something like that, but yeah.

VE Griffith 00:24:06
I wouldn’t either. And I’m excited to see what happens next. But that’s basically how I do it. I’m real careful. I’m real slow. I go line by line. And as a consequence, you know, I hope that when you open it up and see it, you’re going to understand that it wasn’t just gratuitous changing things. I hope that you feel like I’ve helped you make your writing better.

Miss Catherine MH 00:24:37
I’m excited for it.

VE Griffith 00:24:39
Good. The times that I’ve done it for other people, like for Kim Lark and her book Touch of Death, she said that it was very helpful to her. So I think that my approach works well, even if it’s slow and even if it’s a lot of work. I think the final output is what’s most important. I don’t want to half-ass a product like this because it’s important.

Miss Catherine MH 00:25:09
Well, thank you. So I guess that brings us to the next big one, which is how do we edit as co-writers? Shall I start or do you want to start? How would you like to go,

VE Griffith 00:25:09
Well, since we’ve done all of not even one entire episode together, let’s start, and then we’ll revisit this at some later point to see how it’s changed. I’d be excited to see how our process grows over time, but since you start the episodes right now, you start.

Miss Catherine MH 00:25:42
Okay, so currently I am doing the zero draft, or the first draft for this. I’m actually kind of writing a zero draft. It’s weird. I keep pushing VE to write an outline, which is super weird because I hate outlines, but I’m like, we’re working on this together. We should probably outline a little bit of this. But anyway, so I will write a zero draft, and I am picky, and I want them in separate documents. So in our Google Drive, I’ve got, like, 0-1-2-3, and he’s like, can’t we just keep it all in one? And I’m like, we could try. I’m probably still going to keep it in a bunch of them, but I’ll, I’ll attempt his version. So draft zero for me is I’ve written whatever my brain has said, and then I do my color code system, and then I write a much cleaner version and one that I think is really cool, and I want to show them. So then I send it over to VE. Now it’s your term.

VE Griffith 00:26:45
Okay. When I take it, I go again line by line, because I know that Miss. Catherine is Dyslexic and makes some word mistakes that come from her Dyslexia, and that’s fine. That’s one of the reasons we’re doing this together, and it’s one of the reasons why everybody needs an editor, because you don’t always pick the right word. So I go through, and I correct those mistakes. I do a summary where I’m looking at the three CS, and at least in episode one, it was very interesting to me to see that our discussion of what the three C’s are, for episode one, neither of us got the same three C’s. My conflict choice consequence was very different than what yours was, and I thought that was interesting

Miss Catherine MH 00:26:45
Because I also don’t write to them. So for me, I just write until the chapter is complete, because I always write chapter by chapter, right? And then I’ll go back and be like, oh, this was it. This was it, this was it. So it is interesting to see us do different ones.

VE Griffith 00:27:55
I also don’t necessarily write exactly to the three CS when I’m first drafting, but as I’m editing, I want to make sure that either that they are there or we have deliberately chosen that they are not there. Because I feel like the three CS are an excellent method to build a good story, build a good scene. And later, if we decide to go back through these episodes with the scene rubric as we try and, you know, concatenate them into a book or something for later publication, I want to make sure that that structure is already there. So I look at that I make with the Vella, I feel more free to change words, to rewrite sentences, to move stuff around than I might with Scandals Pen, because Scandal’s Pen is not my work. This one is also going to have my name on it. So it’s more my work, more creative freedom, and so I am more heavy-handed with the changes that I make because some of that is also going to be my voice. And then I hand it back to Miss. Catherine for another pass.

Miss Catherine MH 00:29:02
Yes. So I am currently at the draft three because now we’ve had a two and a 2.1. So at this point you really have to, especially if you’re a draft zero, if you’re doing how we are and one of you is writing the beginning and then you’re handing it off to someone to change and change with almost not you in consideration, which sounds weird, but that’s kind of how it is. It’s like we’re both writing the sections. You really have to think of it as this isn’t your writing anymore, it’s our writing. So the voice will be both of us and definitely took a little break because I am one of those people whose immediate reaction is to be like, you got this all wrong, what are you doing? So definitely took a bit of a break. And now that I have this version so this is the newest one, what I’m going to do is I’m going to read it out loud, and by reading it out loud, I’m going to make sure that everything sounds normal while I’m reading it through, just in case we’re maybe still missing a word or something. Still doesn’t sound right with dialogue. I really love to do the dialogue, especially out loud. VE has heard me talk my dialogue before. I’ll just sit there and I’ll go through with their accents and everything. So it really helps me to make sure that the writing sounds correct. So that’s really what I’m going to do with this third version I’m going to go through, make sure we still aren’t missing any really key details, that nothing sounds weird when it’s being read out loud, just in case we ever do that. Now it ever gets real big and we want to do an audio version, you got to make sure that doesn’t sound weird. So that’s what I’m going to do with that and then I will hand it back over to VE, who’s probably going to do a proofread before sending it out, question mark back.

VE Griffith 00:31:08
Yeah, I’m going to do basically a proofread, and I’m going to look and make sure that during your draft three pass, you didn’t introduce any more Dyslexia based errors, that all of the formatting is correct, so that when we get to later down the publication stage or down the publication process, we’ve got all of the spaces in the. Right place. All of the stuff is capitalized. We don’t have stray punctuation marks, we don’t have stray spaces, period, space, all of those are gone. And I’ll look at it in Microsoft Word with non-printing characters turned on so that I can see all of that. You can’t really see that in Google Docs, but you can in Microsoft Word. So I’m going to put it into Microsoft Word as the very, very last step. And one of the reasons to do that is that when you publish on Amazon Vella, they want it in Microsoft Word. So we have to go through Word anyway. We’ll use that functionality just to do a last check and after that we’ll put it in the pile to publish when we get enough episodes put together. Yeah, it’s going to be interesting to see at some point along the way we’re going to get some feedback from our patrons and see what they think. I don’t know if we’re going to do another set of editing passes based on their feedback, at least in the beginning, but I do want to hear what everybody has to say because we can fold that in, we can fold your ideas in into future episodes as well. But it’ll be interesting to see what people think.

Miss Catherine MH 00:32:36
What I like about this is that it’s still, for me anyway, the comfortable amount of drafts because like I said, I like to have multiple drafts to make sure that things are going right. The fun part is I’m not doing all the work, which sounds really weird, but I get to hand it off and then when it comes back to me it’s almost sort of new again and I just get to add or tweak something, which I guess is kind of cool. I don’t know. Do you feel like that when I hand you something and I’m like, Cool, now go tweak it?

VE Griffith 00:33:07
I do. And in some ways this plays to both of our strengths because I’m much better. I feel more comfortable with the second draft, with the editing. Like we talked about a little bit ago, I’m very slow at the first draft stuff. And so we’re having story meetings that are again available to our patrons, where we are discussing which direction we want the story to go, what we want the characters to be like, those kinds of things. So I feel like I have input in the first draft but I don’t have to do the heavy lifting of the drafting and that works well for me. I hope that works well for you.

Miss Catherine MH 00:33:42
Yeah, so far it’s working well. I enjoy that part. I think I would be more anxious with you giving me a zero draft and me being like, well, now I can’t touch it because it’s your work. Now I’m like, Here, I’ll write it, you add you to it.

VE Griffith 00:33:58
Yeah. And that works well for me. It winds up playing to my strength as well, which is editing and revision while taking advantage of your strength, which is first drafting. And for me, it’s always easier to cut. We know that you’re an overwriter. You’ve said it many times, and so it’s easier for me to cut the overriding than it is to create something when there’s not enough there. It’s going to be interesting to see where episode two goes and see how these characters develop based on our discussions. So I’m excited.

Miss Catherine MH 00:34:37
Yeah. But I think that’s pretty much our editing process for co-writing other people’s work and our own work.

VE Griffith 00:34:46
All right, well, if anybody has any questions, we always love hearing from you. You can reach out to us@revisionwizards.com up in the contacts link up in the top right. You can email us at vegriffith@revisionwizards.com or MissCatherinemh@revisionwizards.com. Those will bounce to us. You can find me individually@vegriffith.com, and you can find Miss. Catherine at scribespenn.com.

Miss Catherine MH 00:35:14
Stay magical.

VE Griffith 00:35:15
Have a good time. Bye.