E55 – Introducing Lon Varnadore

Show Notes

This podcast introduces Lon Varnadore as the new Sage Apprentice and co-host. Lon, an indie-published science fiction and fantasy author with over ten books, shares his writing journey and process, revealing himself as a “pantser” who enjoys the discovery of rewriting. He discusses his editing techniques and struggles with anxiety despite his publishing success. The hosts explore Lon’s writing habits, such as working on multiple projects, and preferences, like rewriting over editing. They banter about their differing views on writing processes and their lack of podcasting plans. Finally, Lon shares his social media handles, inviting listeners to connect.

The Revision Wizards are at https://www.revisionwizards.com
V.E. Griffith’s website: https://www.vegriffith.com
Miss Catherine M.H.’s website: https://www.scribes-pen.com

Transcript at: https://revisionwizards.com/?p=2631

Transcript

[V.E. Griffith]
Welcome to the Revision Wizards podcast. I’m VE Griffith, and I’m joined by my annoying cat and my awesome co-host, Ms. Catherine M.H. This week’s episode, 55, and we have a special new edition.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
We’re going to interview our new Sage Apprentice and new co-host. So with that, what’s your name and what’s your pronouns?

[Lon Varnadore]
Lon Varnador, he, him pronouns, and yeah.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Yay. All right. So why did you want to join our podcast?

We’re going to grill you like an interrogation.

[Lon Varnadore]
Okay. I have wanted to be on other writing podcasts and I think I was actually on this one as like a interviewee, like way back, I want to say, or when I was on something with Catherine, uh, when we were doing the Vella stuff, you guys also said, Hey, you want to co-host? I’m like, sure.

So there’s a spot open.

[V.E. Griffith]
I mean, well, tell us where you’re at in your, in your writing journey. Do you have anything published? Are you, you editing?

Are you, what are you up to? Got 10, 15 books out.

[Lon Varnadore]
First one came out in 2015 and then 2016 onwards, pretty got out a few books every year. Haven’t published anything in the last few years, just because still trying to get over trauma and death of family members and the like, and, you know, just the, the 2020s have been kind of awful.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
So what do you like to write?

[Lon Varnadore]
I love writing science fiction and fantasy. Um, maybe taping, taking this little toe tip into horror, just all kinds of, and basically, basically any type of fantasy sci-fi stuff is just my jam.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
So I know you’re an evil person who uses the devil’s Scrivener, but would you say you’re a pantser or a plotter or in between? Let’s see, let’s see where you fall with us.

[Lon Varnadore]
I am very much a pantser.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Yes.

[Lon Varnadore]
I sit down and I will just start writing. I’ve sat down for 15, 20 minutes and go, okay, that’s enough for right now to two, three hours of it. Yeah.

And I will fully admit there are times where I’ve written myself into a corner of some sort and it’s like, um, crap, I’m going to get up and leave and I’ll either come up with a situation or scrap it. Usually I’ll come up with something to sort of get around it. And if it’s the first draft, especially I’ll just skip to another section and just say, that’s future lawn’s problem.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Okay.

[V.E. Griffith]
Scrivener makes that easy.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Yeah, that’s true. Look at that. Now I have another pantser here.

You can have him at the Scrivener-ness.

[V.E. Griffith]
Tell us a little bit about your writing process beyond pantsing.

[Lon Varnadore]
Well, I’ll usually just like, like I say, pants the first draft, um, and it’ll probably come out to about roughly 80 pages, 50,000 words ish. There, there are times when it’s, it’s less, sometimes it’s a little bit more, but then I’ll take a break from it. And if I don’t have a deadline, uh, which I’ve done before and it hurts my soul, uh, to, to have such a deadline, sometimes put it away.

And best thing is, is like to put it away for a few weeks. And if I still feel like I need to write something, I will sit down and I will write something completely different. And I’ll just start writing something.

Once that time has sort of passed, I pull it out and I read it like my worst enemy has written it.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
That’s a way to look at it.

[Lon Varnadore]
Just like, and it’s also like, it gets to a point, it’s like, damn you past lawn. Getting to that point where it’s like, what, what’s supposed to happen here? There’s a bLonk smile.

You bastard. Um, so go through, I’ll edit as best I can. Um, I’ll get sort of a alpha draft type of thing.

Try to get, uh, someone to read it. Usually I will have an editor, a friend of mine take a pass. Uh, and they are pretty brutal, but good at what they do.

And then get it back. And after I’ve been torn apart and bleeding, I will heal up and patch myself up and see that 99% of those changes are good. Um, though gray is gray spelled G R E Y.

I will die on this hill for the color.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Yeah.

[V.E. Griffith]
For once that’s not a battle I’m going to pick do a, do another draft.

[Lon Varnadore]
Uh, if I think I still need another edit, I’ll send it back to the editor and then publish salon. Are you an underwriter or an overrider? Usually an underwriter.

I try to get, get more words out on different drafts and sometimes it just takes a long time. Sometimes it takes a, I remember one time a, um, agent actually asked, I need you to get this from 85,000 to a hundred thousand. And I did it in a little under two weeks, I think.

And then sent it to him and say, this is great. I don’t want it. Thanks.

I guess for the most part, I’m an underwriter.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Okay. Well now I have a question because you mentioned it. Are you traditionally published or indie published or both?

[Lon Varnadore]
I’m only indie published. I have not, I tried, uh, I had a chance to talk to some agents at this, at a local writing convention type of thing. And, um, it was, it was great because I talked to this agent and, um, she handed me her card and she said that, you know, it’s like, this is my card.

Send me what you have when you need to. This is not, there is no time limit, anything. Just send me the, just send it to me when you are ready.

And so I did. And by then she was like, it’s really great. I love it.

Don’t want, we’re not going to publish, I’m not going to push it. I don’t want you as a client. I’m like, Oh, thanks.

Okay. Yeah.

[V.E. Griffith]
But it happens. Yeah. So you’re not one of those who will throw away 200,000 words when you, when you get to the end of a draft and go, Oh my God.

No, probably not.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
It must be nice. All right. So what do you write in?

I know you write in Scrivener, but anything else that you use with your writing process or your process?

[Lon Varnadore]
Uh, with my editing you said? Or writing, both, whichever. Both.

Uh, well, I, I also like to write by hand, which I know some people kind of like look at me and wonder what’s wrong with you. Some people. Um, I.

The answer is nothing on that one. Yeah, exactly. But I also have until recent, until recent things, I will mostly actually print out the entire draft of whatever I’m writing.

If I’m in an editing mode, I will print out the whole, whatever I have, and I will actually go over it with a red pen and actually edit the thing. And I found that the best thing is in, if I’m going through it and suddenly there’s a bunch of details that just pop into my brain that I want to put in, I will pull out my little traveler free write thing, put a number next to where I’m editing and just write down the draft and whatever other ideas I have and just the heat and go back to editing. And then revision is just going through the editing, the edits, adding in the extra stuff that I’ve added and go from there.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
So when you have a writing process, do you have a zone that you write in that’s like, this is where I write? Or are you like other pantsers you write anywhere and everywhere?

[Lon Varnadore]
For the most part, I can, I can write anywhere, but I find the best. I do have a zone of sorts, and that’s the den in my house right now. It’s the best.

It’s just a place that is mine. It is a place that I can, in essence, I can close the door if I need to, even though it’s a weird foldy door that doesn’t really close and lock. But yeah, I can easily kind of just come in here, shut out the world, except for the cats that love to come in and out and sometimes jump on me and jump on the computer and yeah, just kind of have my zone, but I can write other places and I do.

[V.E. Griffith]
So are you one of those crazy idea factory kind of people, or are you the sort of person who works on one thing at a time?

[Lon Varnadore]
Oh, I, I have massive ADHD, so I’m giant. I’m constantly coming up with five different ideas at once and write, you know, I’ll write something down. I’ll start working on something and all of a sudden my mind will go, no, wait, this is a better idea.

I’ve found that it’s usually me not wanting to finish a product or finish a story with, and so my mind will go, oh no, wait, this is a better idea. I will open up another document and I will type out the idea and then go back to the original thing that I was working on. The thing is, because of the way that I am editing and letting things sort of process now, I have other things I can sort of work on.

So I have like, you know, three or four different ideas in the pipe at any one point.

[V.E. Griffith]
You’re insane.

[Lon Varnadore]
Yes.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
I think that works best.

[V.E. Griffith]
I’ve been struggling to get one out for the last 10 years. So, you know, I don’t have a lot of, I don’t have a notebook full of ideas yet. So I’ve sort of been working on the one project and I want to get it done.

If Ms. Catherine would fucking read it.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
I will. I’m going to set a deadline. Not that I’m going to announce it on here because once I announce it, then everybody’s going to be like, did you get that deadline?

So yeah.

[V.E. Griffith]
That’s okay. I’ll hold you to it later. Are you a fast writer?

Are you a slow writer? Is it easy? Is it painful?

Yes.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Yes to all of it.

[Lon Varnadore]
Got it. Yes to all. I mean, like sometimes it’s slow.

Sometimes it’s, I’m sitting there staring at a page with like three words on it and it’s like, I see a cat four or whatever. It’s like, I see a cat and I’ll just stare at it for 45, like 30 minutes and just go, the hell is going on? Why am I doing this?

And it’s like, yeah, you know, the, the whole, Oh, I shouldn’t have done this. I should have actually gotten a major. I should have majored in something that’ll actually, you know, make a decent amount of money and make, make a living so I can go off and be an investment banker or plumber or something.

Then there are other times when it’s just, I’ll sit down and just start working and just crank out five, 10 pages in a, in a day in a sitting, if I’m feeling excessively, you know, ready. So it depends. And I have not had many of those latter days in a bit, but Hey.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
What would you say you enjoy doing more editing or writing?

[Lon Varnadore]
Neither. I enjoy rewriting. I, I mean, I don’t get me wrong.

I love, I do love writing. I do love the process of writing and sitting down and just sort of discovering where it’s going to go. I am the very much the discovery pants or type of writer editing is I have to eat my vegetables.

Okay. But revision for me is very much a, it’s, it’s kind of like almost dessert. It’s so much.

It’s fun because at the thing is, is for the most part, I see it as I am writing. I’m doing that discovery, but in a slightly different way in looking at what I’ve written and go, Oh, maybe I meant to do it this way and generally change some of the words or change a change a phrase or something.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Okay. I enjoy the most writing the book and especially the middle. I absolutely love writing the middle of the book.

I hate writing the beginning and I’m not the best at writing the ending. And that’s where my revisions mainly focus because my middle, I love it. I could write middle of stories for anybody all day long.

[V.E. Griffith]
Well, good. If you’ll read mine, you can write the middle of it.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Trying to get through the beginning slow shack section.

[Lon Varnadore]
Yeah. Like I, I, I am very bad with, with the soggy middle, as they say, like I, I am bad with it. And I find that’s where a lot of my attention starts to sort of like deviate and away and sort of go, Oh, let’s go over here.

Let’s go here. So even if it’s sort of a, Oh, this is a, this is an idea that’s going to branch out from the middle and sort of go off in this direction. And it’ll keep telling the story that I want to know.

It’s really not. And just, I’m, I’m lying.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
VE, I think you enjoy the revision and like editing part of writing, right?

[V.E. Griffith]
Absolutely. I cannot stand first drafting. It’s, it’s the way I always say it is that, you know, I, I hate writing, but I love having written.

And my, which is an old, an old saying, the, the progenitor of whom I forget, I’m sorry, I would cite you if I remembered, but my problem is the pleasure of having written does not overcome the pain of writing sometimes. And so I don’t write, you know, in the way that I should to get things done. The flip side of that is that the story that I have in my head won’t go away.

So I have to write it at some point, or I will never be able to move on to the next one.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
That at least helps. Yeah. Uh, first drafting is one of my favorite, favorite parts of writing, but then again, I’m also that overwriter.

So my first drafts are like 200,000 words. And then I gotcha. Then I got to drop it.

[V.E. Griffith]
Yeah. She’s crazy, ILon. Just so you know, she’s, she’s crazy.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Oh yeah.

[Lon Varnadore]
Yeah. I mean, I can tell you the, the, the ending to the first book I ever wrote and published actually. Um, I changed the ending about five or six times and, and like had to throw away dozens of ideas on how to end the damn thing.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
So, so now that you are becoming our apprentice, what do you look forward to in editing and learning with us?

[Lon Varnadore]
Everything and anything that I can really trying to work on some of the words that I just always know I’m going to either spell wrong or use too much.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Sometimes in order to get it right, you just got to do it again and again and again.

[V.E. Griffith]
No, it’s not repetition. It’s, it’s the in order to, she knows I hate that.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
I put it in all my books and I keep it anytime he’s ever been like, you need to get rid of this. I’m like, Nope.

[V.E. Griffith]
I have never seen a situation where in order to is necessary, except in dialogue, because I know people speak that way. You don’t need it.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Maybe we need more of it in order to get used to it.

[Lon Varnadore]
Like to side tangent about dialogue and about that. There’s one series of books that I started and I have not finished where there is a character who uses essentially as a telepath, speaks into people’s heads and all that. And his dialogue, I use semicolons and yeah, that look in his face.

And the thing is, is because he’s, he is a very exact type of speaker. He speaks very exactly. He doesn’t, he, he very rarely uses colloquialisms and the like, but does once and again, and it’s a little bit more jarring for when he does type of thing.

But so many people have massive problems with that. And what I find is absolutely hilarious is the editing. Like if I use any type of editing software, I’ve used, I use Grammarly once and again, Grammarly seems to love to do that.

And it’s just, why? Like I’ve even had an editor once who actually said, no, there’s, there needs to be a semicolon here. Like it’s in dialogue.

Why? Just put it, make it two separate sentences then.

[V.E. Griffith]
That’s why you have to be careful with AI stuff like Grammarly. And you know, you have to, you, I love them. I use ProWritingAid because it interfaces directly with Scrivener, but you need to pay attention to what it’s doing and make intelligent choices.

You don’t just, you can’t just blindly accept these changes.

[Lon Varnadore]
I like writing dialogue and I like writing jargon, especially and figuring out jargon. That’s always a fun thing for sci-fi and fantasy stuff.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Oh, I love writing in different types of accents and ways that people could talk.

[V.E. Griffith]
Ms. Kathryn is laughing like, like that bothers me. And actually in, in the, in her work that I’ve read, I don’t mind the accents quite so much. Some of our friends really hate them, but it doesn’t bother me.

So what did we miss? What do we want to know about you that we don’t know now? I guess maybe what I’ve learned from writing the amount of books that I’ve written.

So what have you learned from writing the amount, the number of books you’ve written? I don’t know.

[Lon Varnadore]
Still trying to learn it myself. I think I just, it’s, it’s a continuous learning process. I kind of learn something every time I write or revise a book.

There are parts of me that really want to do something and it’s like, I know I shouldn’t. And that’s go back to any books that I’ve published already and like try to do something different with it. Like try to like revise it or change it or something.

And I know that’s just a gigantic no, no, but I want to sometimes, but it’s weird. I don’t want to do that with the very first book I’ve written because I feel like that’s just, and I, and unlike so many other people, I love the first book I’ve written and published. Granted it’s been through like five revisions and every pub, you know, there’s been like five published revisions, but Hey, the most recent is the best in my opinion.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Do you think because you’ve published it’s easier?

[Lon Varnadore]
No, I still, I still have, you know, the, the, this, the butterflies, the, the worry, the, Oh God, why am I being, why am I doing this? I should have been a plumber type of thing. Every single time I, I sit down to write, I still have that anxiety.

I still have that. Like it’s always going to be there. But I know the thing is, is I, I can counter that voice in my head with at the same time you have published other books and other people have bought them.

So you have made money off of your writing. So it’s not completely outside the room possibility that you are not, that you were actually a good writer.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Okay.

[V.E. Griffith]
Which is a contrast to the way I feel. I can hear the whistling sound from my copy of Scrivener sucking so hard.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
That’s because it’s in Scrivener. That was in Google Docs. It would be fun.

[V.E. Griffith]
I put it in Google Docs for you and you, you can’t stand it. So.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
I can’t stand your character. There’s a difference. Your writing is good.

[Lon Varnadore]
Damn.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
That’s all right. You’re just a line editor. I’ll get to you.

[Lon Varnadore]
No, it’s okay.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
I can’t line edit to save my life. Actually, I just got my first one star on an article I wrote, which was really funny. I sent it to my editor because their comment was, there was so much wrong with it.

You should pretty much have an editor look it over. And I went, wow, I send it in and the editor does whatever they want to the article. Yeah.

I was like, so it did go through an editor. She laughed with me earlier today about it. Is there anything you want to know about us?

Cause you just signed up to be with us.

[Lon Varnadore]
So yeah. What type of crazy stuff is in store for us in the future? Shit, if we knew that.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Well, you signed in blood, so you can’t leave.

[Lon Varnadore]
I thought that there was a problem with that. You did say for thaumatological reasons, so I was a little hesitant.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Now, most of the time you’re going to see us bantering back and forth. We almost never agree on something. I love writing the middle of the book.

He hates writing the middle of the book. So it is fun and it makes for fun topics. And it will be interesting to see if you have a completely different mindset from us or if you like side with me most of the time.

[V.E. Griffith]
Yeah. The one thing that I would say is that you need to banish from your mind of the idea that we have a plan. Oh yeah.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
I’ve turned him into a pantser when it comes to podcasting, which was really funny because I’m the one who usually has to be like, do we have a script? Did we make something? Do you need me to make something?

And he’s like, we could wing it.

[Lon Varnadore]
That’s my life, man. Come on. He’s winging it.

Yes. We have a plan. Plan?

What is this? What four letter word is this? One that doesn’t exist for us.

I’m all for it. Good.

[V.E. Griffith]
All right. Where can we find you on the internet?

[Lon Varnadore]
Oh, goody. Well, if you use Twitter and I will use, I will say Twitter until my dying day. I’m at lonvarnadore1, that’s V-A-R-N-A-D-O-R-E.

And then the numeral one, I’m on Instagram and I’m at lon underscore scribbler.

[V.E. Griffith]
Okay. Well, then I guess that about covers it for this episode and we will see how things develop. All right.

[Miss Catherine M.H.]
Stay magical.

[V.E. Griffith]
Bye.